
##235150 SIMON COWELL @!BOB-SIMON-co-host : @!CNN's-Anderson-Coo# ANDERSON @!COOPER reporting : This year , about an average 30 million Americans tuned in to every episode of " American Idol " on Fox . By any measure , the numbers are impressive . But it 's not just pop star wannabes that keep people watching ; it 's also the judges , in particular , 47-year-old Simon Cowell . His verbal assaults on the contestants are often downright cruel , but the TV audience seems to love them . Fox reportedly pays him more than $30 million a year , and he gets another $38 million annually to be a judge on a similar show in England . But what we first reported in March , what most viewers probably do n't realize is that Simon Cowell is n't just a high paid judge . He 's now one of the most successful music figures in the world , though he admits he has no musical ability at all . Do you sing ? @!Mr-COWELL : No. @!COOPER : Do you play an instrument ? @!Mr-COWELL : Guitar , very badly @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ No. @!COOPER : Do you produce albums ? @!Mr-COWELL : No. @!COOPER : So what actually do you do ? @!Mr-COWELL : Guess what 's going to be popular . @!COOPER : You guess what 's going to be popular ? @!Mr-COWELL : Literally that . @!COOPER : Do you feel at all like a fraud at times ? @!Mr-COWELL : Well , no , because I think 99 percent of the people who watch the show are in the same position as me . They know when somebody 's good or not . And for me , it 's been a help not knowing too much , so I can rely on my instincts . @(Footage-of-Simon-C) @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) Instincts are what Simon Cowell credits for his success . @!Mr-COWELL : qwq @ ( From- " American-Ido No ! qwq @ ( Excerpt-of- " Americ @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) But it 's how he displays those instincts that have made him a household name . @!Mr-COWELL : qwq @ ( From- " American-Ido This has been one of the worst days we 've ever had , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ qwq @ ( Excerpt-of- " Americ @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) And there 's no shortage of people who want to take him on . After six seasons , " American Idol " is still the most popular show on television , and tens of thousands show up to audition . qwq @ ( Excerpt-of- " Americ @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) There are a talented few ... qwq @ ( Excerpt-of- " Americ @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) ... but an untalented many , and that 's where Cowell comes in. qwq @ ( Excerpt-of- " Americ @!Mr-COWELL : qwq @ ( From- " American-Ido Thank you , Nicholas . What the bloody hell was that ? @!COOPER : Are n't some of them clearly just there to try to get on TV ? @!Mr-COWELL : We get a lot of people in the auditions who are -- who are going to sing badly on purpose , and we never show them . The people we show are the people who genuinely believe they 're going to win , and that 's what 's fascinating . @!COOPER : Every one @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , they really think they have talent ? @!Mr-COWELL : Every single one . Every single one . qwq @ ( Excerpt-of- " Americ @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) And Cowell is ruthless to them , critiquing not just their performance but , in some cases , their physical appearance . qwq @ ( Begin-excerpt-of- " @!Mr-COWELL : You look like one of those creatures that live in the jungle with those massive eyes . What are they called , bush babies ? @!Ms-PAULA-ABDUL : Simon , you are sick . @(End-of-excerpt) qwq @ ( Excerpt-of- " Americ @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) Cowell says the conflict makes for good TV , and he 's not about to apologize for it . Quite the contrary . Some people have equated it to a medieval stoning , that it 's the same kind of motivation which people watch it . @!Mr-COWELL : It 's an interesting thought for a show where we actually could do that . But ... @!COOPER : You would consider that ? @!Mr-COWELL : Why not ? I can see a similarity to a point , but it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ with that . @!COOPER : Do you think everything should be shown on TV ? @!Mr-COWELL : Yeah . @!COOPER : Public executions , should they be on TV ? @!Mr-COWELL : I think people should be given a choice to watch them , I guess . Yeah . Why not ? @!COOPER : With commercials ? @!Mr-COWELL : Sponsorship . Yeah , sponsorship . @(Footage-of-Cowell) @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) Cowell may be only partially kidding . @!Mr-COWELL : And are they specifying a day in their contract ? qwq @ ( Footage-of-Cowell ; @!COOPER : His critics say if there 's money in it , he 'll try it . He splits his time between tony homes in London and Beverly Hills , running businesses simultaneously on both sides of the Atlantic . In America , in addition to " Idol , " he currently has at least four other TV shows in development . In England , he created another hit music competition show called " The X-Factor , " with Cowell as the caustic judge , alongside Sharon Osborne and record executive Louis Walsh . @!Mr-COWELL : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ anymore after the show . @(Footage-of-Cowell) @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) But TV star is just his night job . In his day job , he 's a record executive for Sony BMG . He 's the guy who created and cast Il Divo ... @(Excerpt-of-Il-Divo) @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) ... a good-looking group of male opera singers who , in just three years , have sold 18 million records around the world . @(Excerpt-of-Il-Divo) @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) Il Divo is classic Cowell , a group with a gimmick designed to gain attention and make money . It 's a formula he figured out 15 years ago as a young music executive in London . qwq @ ( Excerpt-of-Randy- " @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) Cowell bet there was music money to be made in a most unlikely place , the world of professional wrestling . So you saw that these American wrestlers come to London , sell out a stadium ... @!Mr-COWELL : Mm-hmm . @!COOPER : ... you said , Why not give them a record contract . ' @!Mr-COWELL : Completely . Yeah . And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . @!COOPER : Did n't matter that they could n't sing . @!Mr-COWELL : No . Radio One called you , at the time , the anti-Christ of the music industry . @!Mr-COWELL : Yep . @!COOPER : Makes you giggle . @!Mr-COWELL : I could n't care less . I could n't care less . It 's a business . @!COOPER : Some people , though , would want on their tombstone , it to say more than , you know , " Simon Cowell , gave the people what they want , made a lot of money . " @!Mr-COWELL : I 'm sure , in the same way a three-star Michelin chef was looking at the people who make McDonald 's hamburgers and saying , you know , These people are terrible , but I 'd rather be McDonald 's than the three-star Michelin chef . Genuinely , I would . qwq @ ( Excerpt-of- " Pop-Id @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) And if Cowell wants to be McDonald 's , " Idol " is his Big Mac . qwq @ ( Excerpt-of- " Pop-Id @!COOPER : ( @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ team which created " Pop Idol " in England . It was an instant hit . @!Mr-COWELL : ( From " Pop Idol " ) I do n't think anyone in London is as bad as you , and London 's a big city . qwq @ ( Excerpt-of- " Pop-Id @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) Even Fox did n't jump on it . But the daughter of Rupert Murdoch , CEO and chairman of News Corporation , Fox 's parent company , loved the English version of " Idol " and convinced her dad to buy the show . Local versions are now seen in more than 30 countries . @!Mr-COWELL : What we need to do is to credit them with the reason it 's going to go to number one . That 's all they 're interested in. @(Footage-of-Cowell-) @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) And Simon Cowell gets a piece of the action . He and Sony BMG control the recording rights to every " Idol " artist worldwide . That means every time an " Idol " artist sells a song , Simon Cowell makes more money @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ think you wanted to be on " American Idol " , and you started " American Idol " because you wanted to be on TV , but in fact , that had nothing to do with it . @!Mr-COWELL : My only interest was " Idol " was a vehicle to launch records . That was the only thing I was thinking about . But what we actually did , interestingly , by doing " Idol " was I signed the biggest artist on the planet . And it 's called " Idol " because every single " Idol " winner is now signed through Sony BMG . And this applies to all the countries we sell it -- we sell " Idol " to , which is over 30 countries . So there 's probably now 75 to 100 artists , all signed through this one center thing . @(Footage-of-Kelly-C) @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) Among those artists are some major stars . Both Kelly Clarkson and Carrie Underwood are multiple Grammy winners , that together have sold almost 20 million CDs . Put in perspective , Simon Cowell makes @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ artists . Take Bruce Springsteen , for example . Sony BMG has a deal with Bruce Springsteen reported to be about $100 million . @!Mr-COWELL : Yeah . @!COOPER : You have a deal , very different kind of deal , obviously , with Sony BMG . Sources inside say it 's in the same neighborhood . Are you as important to Sony BMG as Bruce Springsteen ? @!Mr-COWELL : In terms of selling records , yes . Because I ... @!COOPER : You sell -- who sells more records ? @!Mr-COWELL : I sell -- I sell more records than Bruce Springsteen , sure , yeah . I mean , in the last five years , I 've probably sold over 100 million records . So if he got 100 , I should have got 500 . But , I mean , you know , $100 million deal is -- that 's a great deal . But , like I say ... @!COOPER : For him or for you ? @!Mr-COWELL : For him . For him , it 's a good deal . qwq @ ( From- " American-Ido @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you , because ... qwq @ ( Excerpt-of- " Americ @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) Cowell 's bravado is part of his act . So , too , is the verbal sparring with his " American Idol " colleagues , host Ryan Seacrest and fellow judges Randy Jackson and Paula Abdul . qwq @ ( Begin-excerpt-of- " @!Mr-COWELL : Who 's asking you ? @!Mr-RYAN-SEACREST : I 'm asking you . @!Mr-COWELL : No , no , no . You do the links , sweetheart . @!Mr-SEACREST : But you 're not making sense . @!Mr-COWELL : I 'll do the judging . @!Mr-RANDY-JACKSON : Ryan Seacrest , ladies and gentlemen . Ryan Seacrest. @!Mr-SEACREST : Do n't call me sweetheart . @(End-of-excerpt) qwq @ ( Footage-of-Cowell , @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) In truth , Cowell and the rest seem to be good friends . Though he 's fiercely competitive , he knows that their enormous success is due to the sum of their parts . We joined them one weekend on a private jet to Las Vegas . No , but you guys joke , you do get along @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I mean , all of us get along very well . I think that the great thing about our dynamic , our relationship , is that we 're pretty comfortable with each other , so we can say and do anything to one another and not have to worry about hurting anybody 's feelings . @!Mr-JACKSON : Yeah , we like ribbing each other . The ribbing is cool . @!Mr-SEACREST : Yeah . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Cowell , @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) Cowell 's gotten used to private planes and constant attention . Wherever he goes , he attracts a crowd , and apparently it 's not just singers who want Cowell 's critique . I read some story that people come up to you and ask you to criticize them . @!Mr-COWELL : I was once offered money to judge somebody in bed , yeah , a couple . @!COOPER : They wanted you to watch them in bed ? @!Mr-COWELL : Yes . @!COOPER : And critique them ? @!Mr-COWELL : Yes . @!COOPER : While they were making love ? @!Mr-COWELL : Yes . And I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the offer ? @!Mr-COWELL : About 100 grand , and I should have -- I should have taken the money . Yeah , because it would be a much more interesting story now , other than , I didn't. @(Footage-of-Cooper-) @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) We were interested to learn that he loves to race high-speed go-carts . And when we suggested a spin around the track at the Mario Andretti Racing School at Las Vegas Motor Speedway , Cowell jumped at the chance . His long time girlfriend , Terri Seymour , was there to watch when he got into an Indy car for the first time . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Cooper- Unidentified Man : ( Voiceover ) You guys look good out there . It 's a piece of cake until we get above up to 165 , 170. @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) In a matter of minutes , Cowell topped out at 175 miles an hour . He was , as usual , quite pleased with himself . So you thought you did pretty well ? @!Mr-COWELL : Yeah . @!COOPER : Yeah . @!Mr-COWELL : Yeah @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I got -- I got the hang of that . @!COOPER : Yeah ? Because we have some people I want you to meet who might have a different opinion . @!Mr-COWELL : Ah . @!COOPER : So let 's go over here . @!Mr-COWELL : OK . Oh , my God . qwq @ ( Footage-of-judges ; @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) He did n't know it , but we set up an " Idol " like panel to judge his driving with NASCAR Cup champion Kurt Busch , Daytona 500 winner Michael Waltrip and racing legend Mario Andretti . So , Mario , how 'd you think he did ? @!Mr-MARIO-ANDRETTI : Probably the language that you understand the best was just bloody awful . @!Mr-COWELL : Was it ? @!Mr-ANDRETTI : To me , it looked like you were looking at a map on your lap and then looking for a dome light that does n't exist . @!Mr-MICHAEL-WALTRIP : It 's just so sad that a man that wants something as bad as you do looks like a drunk going to get more liquor . @!Mr-KURT-BUSCH : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that drive and determination and that will and desire . There 's no ... @!Mr-WALTRIP : There 's no " it " factor . I do n't feel any -- do you ? @!Mr-COWELL : Are you saying I 'll never be a racing driver ? @!Mr-WALTRIP : You were terrible . @!Mr-COWELL : Is that it ? @!Mr-ANDRETTI : Look at your shoes . @!Mr-COWELL : Well , I disagree . @!Mr-WALTRIP : Terrible shoes . qwq @ ( Footage-of-judges ; @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) But a bit of his own medicine wo n't cure Simon Cowell 's mean streak anytime soon . @!Mr-COWELL : Really pathetic . It 's just hopeless . qwq @ ( Excerpt-of- " Americ @!COOPER : ( Voiceover ) There 's just too many people that want to hear what he has to say , and besides , there 's far too much money in it for him to quit . qwq @ ( Begin-excerpt-of- " @!Mr-COWELL : Cindy , I did n't understand a word of that . @!CINDY : I 'm sorry . @!Mr-COWELL : Was that serious ? @!Ms-ABDUL : Oh @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ think you 're humiliating people ? @!Mr-COWELL : I do n't think I 'm humiliating anybody . I think possibly they 're humiliating themselves . But no one is dragged kicking and screaming , Anderson , into that audition room . @!COOPER : Do you think you 're tough on people ? @!Mr-COWELL : From the contestants perspective , absolutely . But what 's more cruel ? You know , I sometimes -- I want to meet the parents sometimes and say to them , Are you aware that your son/daughter has zero talent , and that you 're wasting their time when they could be doing something they 're good at ? ' @!COOPER : So you think you 're helping this people ? @!Mr-COWELL : Completely . Like a doctor . But no , I do n't have a conscience about this at all because , at the end of the day , if you decided that you want to enter " American Idol , " you want a short circuit to be rich and famous . If that means you 've got to take a couple of hits @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 
##235151 THE AGE OF WARMING @!SCOTT-PELLEY-co-h : If you were waiting for the day that global warming would change the world , that day is here . It 's happening far from civilization 's notice in a place about as remote as you can get . Scientists believed that Antarctica , at the bottom of the world , was too vast , too remote to be bothered by climate change any time soon . But now , glaciers are setting speed records for melting and whole colonies of penguins are disappearing . Why does it matter ? Well , Antarctica is a climate giant , driving ocean and wind currents worldwide with enormous potential to raise sea level . Earlier this year we set out on an expedition to find out what 's happening down south . First stop : the high mountains of Patagonia in Chile , where you can actually see a new age beginning . @(Footage-of-glacier) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) This mass of ice is Glacier O'Higgins . It 's been frozen for tens of thousands of years in the mountains of southern Chile . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Foreign language spoken ) @(Footage-of-Gino-Ca) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) But for a scientist like Gino Casassa , it 's breathtaking for its speed . @!Mr-CASASSA : This was the glacier front position in 1896. @(Footage-of-O'Higgi) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) Now , O'Higgins is morphing into a lake , retreating more than any glacier in South America . The glacier was sitting where we are sitting right now ? @!Mr-CASASSA : We would have been covered by ice . I think it 's a very clear picture that the world is getting warmer and that the impacts which were projected even 10 or 20 years ago are happening right now . @(Footage-of-O'Higgi) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) O'Higgins has fallen back nine miles in 100 years , throwing off icebergs that roll as they dissolve into the lake . Casassa took us to the face of O'Higgins , carefully measuring our approach . It 's a dynamic thing . It 's cracking . @!Mr-CASASSA : Yeah , absolutely , yeah . @!PELLEY : Popping . Rumbling . There goes a big piece of it right there . Wow . There @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : Look at that . And this is why you advised ... @!Mr-CASASSA : Exactly . @!PELLEY : ... us not to get to close . @!Mr-CASASSA : Exactly . @(Footage-of-Casassa) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) Casassa is a glaciologist who surprised us when he told us what he used to think of global warming . @!Mr-CASASSA : I just did n't believe in global warming -- I mean , in global warming being produced by mankind , by us contaminating the atmosphere . I just refused to believe that . Oh , wow , wow , wow . @!PELLEY : Look at that one . Well , there 's a bit of your proof . @!Mr-CASASSA : Yeah , exactly . @(Footage-of-O'Higgi) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) He says now the evidence has convinced him . We set out to find more evidence as Casassa went to measure the height of O'Higgins . We climbed to a spot where he crossed from earth to ice in 2004 . You thought we were going to walk from here ... @!Mr-CASASSA : Yes . @!PELLEY : ... onto the ice . @!Mr-CASASSA @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ look at it . @!Mr-CASASSA : Ye have a small problem now . qwq @ ( Footage-of-lake ; -C @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) Much to his surprise , there 's a thousand feet of water where he walked three years ago . We had to hike for hours to get to the ice , and when we got there , we found it blackened by earth and volcanic ash . Casassa set up a receiver to measure the distance from the top of O'Higgins to satellites overhead . So you get a contour line at the top of the glacier. @!Mr-CASASSA : Exactly . @!PELLEY : As you go . @!Mr-CASASSA : As we walk , the receiver , which is in my backpack , is capturing data every one second . @(Footage-of-Pelley-) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) And the data showed him O'Higgins has thinned 92 feet in seven years . O'Higgins is not unique . More than 90 percent of the world 's glaciers are retreating , and if you 're looking for early trouble from climate change , this is it . Glacial runoff provides water for @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ America , China and India . @!Mr-CASASSA : In the medium term , let 's say , depending on the size of the glacier , 30 years , just a few decades , the glacier will start to waste away in such a degree that you will see the runoff , the glacial melt coming from that glacier starting to decline . @!PELLEY : And these cities around the world will be starved for water . @!Mr-CASASSA : Exactly . So that 's the major issue . And we see now the first impacts . @(Footage-of-Casassa) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) We wanted to see the evidence of warming near the bottom of the world , so we set sail from the last city south , Ushuaia , Argentina , on a two-day voyage to Antarctica . It 's more than 1,000 miles from Glacier O'Higgins in Patagonia and across the Drake Passage to the Antarctic peninsula . Here , we found there 's green where the white used to be . On the coast , in summer , there 's grass where the scientists used to ski . This is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ lazy elephant seals , and the Chinstrap penguin . There 's the chinstrap right there right under the eye . @!Mr-WAYNE-TRIVELPIE : Yeah . Mm-hmm . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Pelley , @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) American biologists Sue and Wayne Trivelpiece were the first to discover trouble in Paradise Cove . How have these populations changed over the years ? @!Mr-WAYNE-TRIVELPIE : They have dropped by about 60 percent . @!PELLEY : Sixty percent ? @!Mr-TRIVELPIECE : Yep . @(Footage-of-outpost) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) The Trivelpieces live in this tiny American outpost where they 've studied penguins for more than 30 years with a grant from the National Science Foundation . You know , I 'm curious about the evolution . How long have there been penguins ? @!Ms-SUE-TRIVELPIECE : Oh , millions of years . @(Footage-of-penguin) @!Ms-TRIVELPIECE : ( Voiceover ) There have been six foot penguin fossils found . @!PELLEY : Six feet . Tall as me. @!Ms-TRIVELPIECE : Six feet tall . Yep . And with 10-inch bills . And I really do n't think I 'd want to band one of those guys . @!Mr-TRIVELPIECE @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ( Voiceover ) Banding modern penguins led the Trivelpieces to their discovery . It starts with a roundup . They 've squeezed ID bands on 70,000 penguins to see if they survive their migration . @!Ms-TRIVELPIECE : Oh , excuse me . It 's OK. @(Footage-of-penguin) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) Penguins migrate up to 5,000 miles in the coldest water on Earth . And if you think penguins do n't fly , you 've never seen them underwater . They can hit up to 25 miles an hour . But after millions of years of this endurance , many Chinstrap and Adelie penguins are n't surviving anymore . @!Mr-TRIVELPIECE : We knew something was drastically wrong . Something had changed in the ocean . @!PELLEY : What did you think was happening ? @!Ms-TRIVELPIECE : We did n't really know . We knew it had to be something that was going on once they left land and went to sea . @!Mr-TRIVELPIECE : OK , buddy . We love working with the Chinstraps . They 're far and away the most cooperative . @!PELLEY : But you know what , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ you . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Pelley , @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) Getting manhandled may ruffle their feathers , but it was key to discovering their fate . These are grown penguin chicks chasing their mothers for food , which she delivers beak to beak . Soon , the chicks will go to sea to hunt for a shrimp-like crustacean called krill . The krill grow beneath the sea ice , but in the warming ocean , the sea ice is melting away . So the penguins have been going to sea and starving to death ? @!Ms-TRIVELPIECE : The chicks are declining , and we think they just ca n't find the krill. @!Mr-TRIVELPIECE : You know , when you can link a change in warming in air temperature through ice to krill to penguins and show a 50 percent reduction in the penguin populations here , and connect all the dots , you really ca n't make it any clearer than that . @(Footage-of-Pelley-) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) If it 's clear the south is warming , Paul Mayewski is here to find out why . @!Mr-PAUL-MAYEWSKI : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ potentially going to be much , much bigger . @(Footage-of-Pelley-) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) Mayewski is among the most accomplished Antarctic scientists . He 's director of the Climate Change Institute at the University of Maine and he 's been exploring Antarctica since 1968 . They 've even named a mountain after him here . What are some of the questions , some of the big questions you 'd like to answer here ? @!Mr-MAYEWSKI : Oh , we 'd , of course , like to be able to demonstrate that , over the last few thousand years , this temperature change truly is different . @(Footage-of-Pelley-) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) Is warming caused by man 's pollution in the atmosphere ? @!Mr-MAYEWSKI : Just keep pulling on that so it 's tight around your legs . @(Footage-of-Pelley-) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) Mayewski says the answer is right under our feet . So with the help of scientists from Poland 's Arstosophy Research Station , we set out to climb to the top of the glacier that was fractured by deep crevasses covered in snow . Antarctica is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ States , and it 's covered in ice that averages a mile in thickness . And so this is the top . @!Mr-MAYEWSKI : This is the top of the plateau , a spectacular 360 degree view . @!PELLEY : Paul , that 's science the hard way . @!Mr-MAYEWSKI : Yep . If you want to learn about the climate , you 've got to get here and you 've got to experience the place . @!PELLEY : One of the reasons you work so hard to get to a place like this is because it 's just about as remote as you can imagine . Just listen for a second . Nothing . Dead silence . We 're up on the Warsaw plateau . It 's about 1500 feet or so from sea level on King George Island in Antarctica . The other reason you come here is to see some of the most dramatic evidence anywhere in the world of climate change . Over the past 50 years , this region , the Antarctic peninsula , the northwestern part and the islands around it , has been going @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that makes the region the fastest warming place on Earth . @(Footage-of-Mayewsk) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) Mayewski is here to drill an ice core because when ice is laid down , it captures everything in the air . Drilling down is drilling through time . @(Footage-of-ice-sam) @!Mr-MAYEWSKI : ( Voiceover ) Well , the ice cores are really the only way we have of demonstrating what greenhouse gas levels were like prior to their first measurement by humans , which is really 1957 or so . @(Footage-of-men-put) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) By chemically analyzing the core , he can see what was in the air thousands of years ago . @!Mr-MAYEWSKI : One more sample will do it . @(Footage-of-Mayewsk) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) Back in Maine , Mayewski has a vault of hundreds of cores . He once led a team that drilled a glacier core two miles deep . He and his colleagues have found some of the most powerful evidence that man is changing the climate . What do the ice cores tell you about greenhouse gases ? @!Mr-MAYEWSKI : Now we know from the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the speed of rise are significantly , significantly greater than anything in the last 850,000 years . And the levels that we expect to get by the end of this century are going to be double what we have today . @(Footage-of-smokest) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) Mayewski and his colleagues have timed the sudden rise in greenhouse gases to the start of the Industrial Revolution about 150 years ago . If , as expected , greenhouse gas pollution doubles by the end of this century , temperatures are predicted to rise four to six degrees . @(Footage-of-coast) @!Mr-MAYEWSKI : ( Voiceover ) You could very well see sea level rises on the order of several feet and perhaps even several tens of feet . If sea level were to rise like that , that would be tremendous changes , immense migrations . @!PELLEY : You would potentially have millions , hundreds of millions of people . @!Mr-MAYEWSKI : Yeah . @!PELLEY : Who 'd have to move inland . @!Mr-MAYEWSKI : It would be the largest catastrophe that the modern world had experienced . @(Footage-of-ocean) @!PELLEY : ( Voiceover ) @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . But some of it may be inevitable . It turns out that many greenhouse gases last a long time in the atmosphere , and there 's a lot up there already . If we stopped every automobile , every factory , every emission of a greenhouse gas today ... @!Mr-MAYEWSKI : Mm-hmm . @!PELLEY : ... would the world continue to warm ? @!Mr-MAYEWSKI : It would certainly for a while . It is important that everybody really begin to make reductions in greenhouse gases and all of the toxic elements that go along with it in order to impact or to have a change in the future . And once we start , it 's not going to be an immediate solution . We have -- we 're going to have to pay for a while for what we 've done . @(Announcements) ' 
##235152 DEEPWATER @!STEVE-KROFT-co-ho : After 9/11 , few government entities were as poorly prepared to take on an expanded role as the US Coast Guard . Already charged with sea rescues , drug interdictions and immigration enforcement , the Coast Guard became the primary maritime force for homeland security , charged with protecting 95,000 miles of coastline and 361 ports with an old and antiquated fleet . So five years ago , the Coast Guard undertook a massive modernization program called Deepwater and it ended up way over its head . As we first reported in May , the $24 billion project has turned into a fiasco that has set new standards for incompetence and triggered a Justice Department investigation . @(Footage-of-promoti) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) This promotional video for the biggest project the Coast Guard had ever undertaken looked impressive enough . Deepwater would include 91 new ships and 124 smaller boats , plus new planes and helicopters . @(Footage-of-promoti) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) But five years into the program , the Coast Guard has fewer boats and ships now than it did before it started @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ hard to believe . @(Footage-of-Cumming) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) Congressman Elijah Cummings , chairman of the Coast Guard Oversight Subcommittee , calls the program a mess . @!Rep-CUMMINGS : Here it goes to the national security of this country . That 's serious business , particularly after 9/11 . And so , you know , it pains me . It really does . @!KROFT : Is the Coast Guard in worse shape now than it was before it began Deepwater ? @!Rep-CUMMINGS : They say they 're not , but I think they are . @(Footage-of-unseawo) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) You could begin with the fact that the Coast Guard spent nearly $100 million to ruin eight boats . The plan was to take the aging workhorses of the fleet , the 110-foot island class patrol boats , and lengthen them by 13 feet , adding a launch ramp for small inflatable boats and expanding the superstructure . But something went drastically wrong at the Bollinger Shipyard near New Orleans , where the first eight boats were extended . @!Rep-CUMMINGS : What you see is a lot of buckling @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bending that should n't be bending . In other words , should be flat . @(Footage-of-unseawo) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) After just a few weeks on the water , all eight boats experienced severe structural problems and had to be pulled out of service . They are currently tied up at this pier at the Coast Guard 's Baltimore Yard waiting to be decommissioned . Their problems , the Coast Guard says , too serious to be fixed . Congressman Cummings wanted to show us the cracks and the buckling himself , but the Coast Guard refused to let him take us on base . @!Rep-CUMMINGS : We should not allow situations to occur where you spend $14 million for a boat that does n't float . @!KROFT : You do n't think it was seaworthy . @!Rep-CUMMINGS : No . And they do n't either . That 's why -- when I say " they , " I 'm referring to the Coast Guard . @!KROFT : I mean , how does that happen ? @!Rep-CUMMINGS : I do n't know . The thing -- the thing -- I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . It started with some people not either paying attention or people who did n't care or people who were greedy or people who were incompetent or people who lacked integrity or a combination of all . @(Footage-of-Coast-G) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) That pretty much sums up the sentiments of just about every government organization that has taken the time to investigate Deepwater and its problems , which go far beyond the patrol boats . And there 's been no shortage of whistleblowers shouting " Mayday . " Some of the blame can be traced to the original Deepwater contract . qwq @ ( Footage-of-boat-eq Unidentified Man : ( Voiceover ) Coast Guard four and three four . @(Footage-of-Coast-G) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) From the outset , the Coast Guard did n't have the resources to run a $24 billion project . So it decided to outsource the entire Deepwater program to the private sector , not just the construction , but the day-to-day management of the contract . It went to a company called Integrated Coast Guard Systems , a joint venture of Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ surprisingly , the joint venture picked Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman to do the lion 's share of the work . @(Footage-of-Kevin-J) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) One of the first people to send up a warning flare was Captain Kevin Jarvis , who until his retirement last fall , commanded the Coast Guard 's engineering and logistics center . People have told us , Look , the people who were supposedly managing the contractors were in many cases the contractors themselves . The same companies . Correct ? Captain KEVIN JARVIS : Correct . Correct . People say that this is like the fox watching the hen house , and it 's worse than that . It 's where the government asked the fox to develop the security system for the hen house , then told them , You 're going to do it . You know , by the way , we 'll give you security code to the system , and we 'll tell you when we 're on vacation . ' qwq @ ( Footage-of-Jarvis ; @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) Captain Jarvis , one of the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ extending the patrol boats from the very beginning . But when he asked the Coast Guard and the contractors for the specifics of the plan , he got an e-mail from the Coast Guard acquisition team . @!Capt-JARVIS : The contractors engineering work was good enough . We do n't need to pursue this any further . It 's going to compromise the cost and the schedule , so it 's good enough . Thank you very much . @!KROFT : They were n't that interested in what you had to say ? @!Capt-JARVIS : We were looked upon as being impediments to the progress of the contract . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Jarvis ; @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) Captain Jarvis was n't the only person frustrated with the failures of Deepwater . Michael DeKort was Lockheed Martin 's lead engineer for electronics on the patrol boats . @!Mr-MICHAEL-DeKORT : ( From YouTube video ) It may be very hard for you to believe that our government and the largest defense contract in the world is capable of such alarming incompetence . @(Footage-of-Interne) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) DeKort was so @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ he made this video and posted it on YouTube . That 's sort of an unusual venue for a whistleblower. @!Mr-DeKORT : Yes , sir . I was trying to be resourceful and keep the -- keep the issue going . @!KROFT : Why not go to the press ? @!Mr-DeKORT : Well , because ... @!KROFT : You had been ? @!Mr-DeKORT : Yeah , because the press had told me that they were not going to print because they thought my allegations seemed a little too fantastic , actually . @!KROFT : To believe . @!Mr-DeKORT : To believe , yes , sir . @!KROFT : What was so outlandish that they had trouble believing you ? @!Mr-DeKORT : We actually ordered radios for very -- the very small boats that go on the 123s that were not waterproof . @!KROFT : That is hard to believe . @!Mr-DeKORT : Yes , sir . @!KROFT : And it 's true . @!Mr-DeKORT : Yes , sir . @!KROFT : Did you tell Lockheed Martin about this problem ? @!Mr-DeKORT : Yes , sir . All the way through to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ did the radios get changed ? @!Mr-DeKORT : Because , coincidentally , one day during testing , it rained and four of the radios failed . @!KROFT : An act of God ? @!Mr-DeKORT : Yes , sir . A rather fortuitous one , I should think . @!KROFT : Did they offer you any apologies ? @!Mr-DeKORT : Oh , no . I was actually removed from the project shortly after that . qwq @ ( Footage-of-boat ; -b @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) The radios , which were vital for communicating with other boats and helicopters , were n't the only problem . DeKort says antennas and electronic components on the exterior of the boat would n't survive the extreme weather the Coast Guard has to operate in , a fact that was later backed up by the Department of Homeland Security 's inspector general . Even something as simple as the placement of security cameras made no sense . @!Mr-DeKORT : We installed a camera system with two very large blind spots that were directly over the bridge , about 15 feet wide on each side . @(Footage-of-bridge) @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : ( Voiceover ) Yes , sir . @!KROFT : That 's not an area you want to blindspot. @!Mr-DeKORT : No . I should think if one wanted a security system for their home , they might have a camera over their front door . @(Footage-of-boats) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) But no one 's laughing about the boat 's electronic communications system , which failed to meet government security standards . Voice and data transmissions could leak out and be monitored by anyone , jeopardizing not only the Coast Guard 's own secret messages but those of every government agency the boats communicated with . How serious were these communication problems ? @!Rep-CUMMINGS : Very serious . Very serious . What happens is , is that if you do n't do the wiring in a certain way , countries like Cuba can eavesdrop on our communications . I mean , secret communications . I mean -- and that 's not good . @!KROFT : But if you had an enemy ship or a terrorist ship that was trying to smuggle a dirty bomb into the United States , and @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at the port , they could conceivably weave their way through the boats . @!Rep-CUMMINGS : I would think so . Yes . Those are the kind of problems that we 're talking about . qwq @ ( Footage-of-boat ; -g @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) Once the Coast Guard decided to deep-six the extended patrol boats , it stepped up the schedule for its long-term replacement , the fast response cutter . It was to be built at this Northrop Grumman facility in Gulfport , Mississippi . And instead of having a steel or aluminum hull , it would be made of a composite material , which made the cutters much heavier and required four engines instead of two . @!Capt-JARVIS : We used to call it a brick . It was just so heavy . And even a brick , if you put enough horsepower on it , you could make it plane on the water . Well , that 's exactly what they did here . @!KROFT : Why did they decide to make it out of composite and not out of steel or aluminum ? @!Capt-JARVIS : @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ fact that , one day it was the traditional hull , and the next day , it 's going to be composite . @!KROFT : Do you think it had anything to do with the fact that the contractor had built this big , huge shipyard to do composite hulls ? @!Capt-JARVIS : One could really make that make that inference . I do n't know if that was part of the decision , but one can sure make that inference . @!KROFT : Was one ever built ? @!Capt-JARVIS : No . Thank goodness . @(Footage-of-fast-re) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) After tests showed technical and design problems , the Coast Guard finally pulled the plug , and another $38 million in developmental costs went down the drain . But the huge national security cutter is still going full speed ahead . At 418 feet long , it is by far the largest ship the Coast Guard has ever had , and the most expensive . It 's supposed to be able to monitor 56,000 square miles of ocean every day . The Coast Guard expects to accept delivery of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ this is like a Navy ship . @!Capt-JARVIS : It 's supposed to be able to run with the Navy battle groups . @!KROFT : Will it be able to ? @!Capt-JARVIS : In my opinion , no . Our models show it 's not going to meet the speed requirements . It 's going to miss . @!KROFT : Is that a problem ? @!Capt-JARVIS : It 'll be good enough . @(Footage-of-nationa) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) But speed was n't the only problem for the national security cutter . Coast Guard engineers found serious flaws in the structural design that could lead to premature metal fatigue , even structural failure . A second opinion from the Navy 's engineers concur . Unidentified Woman : May God bless this ship and all who sail in her . qwq @ ( Footage-of-woman ; - @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) But that did n't stop the Coast Guard from christening the national security cutter last year . A second one is now being built . The cost so far : Nearly $800 million . This is a story the Coast Guard @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ make its commandant , Thad Allen , or any other Coast Guard officer , available for an interview . And the contractor , Integrated Coast Guard Systems , also declined . @(Footage-of-congres) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) They did , however , have to appear before Congress . Representative GENE TAYLOR : My question to you is ... @(Footage-of-Gene-Ta) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) Mississippi Representative Gene Taylor , who spent 12 years in the Coast Guard , was n't much more successful than we were at getting answers , particularly when he asked the contractors about those eight patrol boats that proved to be unseaworthy. @!Rep-TAYLOR : So at what point does one of you step forward and say , We made a horrible mistake ' ? I think the stakes are pretty high , folks . I 'm giving you an opportunity to tell me what went wrong , and who 's going to accept responsibility . Mr. Anton ? @(Footage-of-James-A) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) Eventually James Anton , Northrop Grumman 's Deepwater vice president , spoke up . @!Mr-JAMES-ANTON : We need to determine the cause of @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ we determine the cause of the failure , we 'll determine accountability . When we determine accountability , we 'll know who needs to stand up . @!Rep-TAYLOR : How long does that take ? @!Mr-ANTON : Well ... @!Rep-TAYLOR : Was it -- was it two years ago ? @(Footage-of-Taylor) @!KROFT : ( Voiceover ) Besides serving on the Coast Guard Oversight Committee , Congressman Taylor knows a few things about extending the length of boats . He had it done on an old shrimp boat in his hometown of Bay St. Louis . @!Rep-TAYLOR : And I pretty well drew it out on the back of a napkin , went and found some guys , some welders , and we did basically the same thing they did that Coast Guard cutter on a smaller scale . My boat works fine . In their case , they did n't think it through . @!KROFT : Are these boats good for anything ? @!Rep-TAYLOR : No . I 've even asked that they could be used on river environments , if we could n't give them to the Colombians or the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ boat . And they did n't have the confidence that the vessel could get down to Latin America to be given away . @!KROFT : Has anybody been fired or demoted ? @!Rep-TAYLOR : To the absolute best of my knowledge , no one in the Coast Guard was demoted , no one was fired . The taxpayers have not been given their money back , and of course , the ships have n't been fixed . @!KROFT : The Coast Guard officially revoked its acceptance of the converted patrol boats in May and demanded at least some of its money back . But the relationship between the Coast Guard and the contractor continues to flourish . Earlier this month , Integrated received a nearly $600 million contract to complete the first two national security cutters and to build a third one . Some of that money will go to fix the cutter 's structural design flaws . After our story had been completed , the Coast Guard finally offered to make Commandant Thad Allen available , but only for a live , unedited interview , which we declined to do @ @ @ 
##235153 SWIMMING WITH SHARKS @!BOB-SIMON-co-host : There may be no single fear as intense and as widespread as the fear of meeting up with a shark . Sharks even inhabit the nightmares of people who do n't swim . Quite a surprise , then , to learn that these days more and more people are seeking them out , spending millions of dollars to get as close as they can to sharks . But here 's the rub : Right where sharks are most visible , they 're becoming more dangerous . As we reported a few years ago , shark attacks are on the rise , and many blame these attacks precisely on shark tourism in a place which is called " Shark Central . " @(Footage-of-shark-t) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) More than 35,000 tourists , Americans and Europeans mainly , come here every year to the tip of South Africa , where two oceans meet , with the hope of seeing what we were lucky enough to see , a great white going after a seal , exploding out of the ocean like a cruise missile @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ fish 20 feet long getting air . @!Mr-AIDAN-MARTIN : This is the best place in the world to learn about the secret lives of these animals . So that 's what attracts me here . @!SIMON : The secret lives of these animals ? @!Mr-MARTIN : Oh , very secret . @(Footage-of-a-great) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) So secret , says Australian scientist Aidan Martin , that we know very little about great white sharks . We do n't know how many there are or how long they live . We 've never seen them mate or give birth . Oh ! @!Mr-MARTIN : Oh , fantastic ! Look at that ! @!SIMON : How did such an enormous guy get so far out of the water ? @!Mr-MARTIN : It 's essentially a projectile . And it has sacrificed maneuverability for speed . @(Footage-of-sharks-) @!Mr-MARTIN : ( Voiceover ) So it 's a little bit like having a truck trying to run down one of those bicycle couriers . I know we 've all had fantasies about that . @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) Excited the seals , too , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , that 's what it 's all about . What for us is a remarkable sight , for the sharks is breakfast , and seals are their favorite food . @!SIMON : Oh ! That was pretty impressive . @!Mr-MARTIN : Oh ! That was fantastic . He came out upside-down . @(Footage-of-Seal-Is) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) We 're right next to Seal Island here , population 50,000 . When you see a shark going for the seal , who are you rooting for ? @!Mr-CHRIS-FALLOWS : Well , I actually root for the seals . @(Footage-of-Simon-a) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) Chris Fallows is a shark tourism operator . I think we can really relate to the situation with the seals . @!Mr-FALLOWS : Sure . @(Footage-of-seals) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) They 're at home , sitting in the sun , happy and safe and having a wonderful time and everything 's great ; but when they get hungry , they 've got to go out into the street , and in the street there are a lot of rough characters . @!Mr-FALLOWS : Correct . Yeah . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ they need to go out and feed , and at this island they 've got a very good chance of being eaten by a white shark . qwq @ ( Footage-of-shark ; - @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) After watching the shark have a meal , a lot of tourists do the same , go back to shore . But some stick around , tempted to leave our world , if ever so briefly , and go down to theirs , underwater . It 's the thing to do these days for seekers of adventure and adrenaline . You do it , of course , from the safety of a cage . Safety ? This happened to tourists not far from where we were , the shark actually got into the cage . If he had n't lost his bearings and turned upside-down , the tourists would have been toast . But Chris Fallows assured us that this hardly ever happens , that thousands have gone down in cages here and lived to talk about it . So we decided to give it a try . God , that 's a @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ everything I 've said so far , Bob ? @!SIMON : Yeah . How do I get out ? @(Footage-of-great-w) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) It actually is n't quite as frightening as you might think . That could be because the great white is such a magnificent creature that you feel more wonder than fear . Got to say the closer it comes , the more awesome it becomes . Swims with unbelievable grace considering it 's such a -- such a big fish . @(Footage-of-seal) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) Then suddenly and quietly , a seal came by . Oh , my heavens ! He 's in the cage with me ! @!Mr-MARTIN : He 's in the cage . @(Footage-of-seal-wi) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) I 'll never know whether it was trying to escape the shark or if it just liked me . He 's looking right at me . Is this something I should worry about ? @!Mr-MARTIN : Do n't touch the seal . @!SIMON : OK . When " Jaws " came out 30 years ago now , it had such an impact @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , they were so scared of sharks . Think about what 's changed ; now shark tourism has become big business . A lot of people are spending a lot of money to do what I 'm doing right now , which is just to sit underwater in a cage and hope to get a good look at a shark . @(Footage-of-surfers) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) But shark tourism has its critics . Surfers here are convinced that shark attacks are on the rise because tour operators attract sharks with bait and fish blood known as chum to make sure their clients get what they paid for . Unidentified Man : Whoa . @(Footage-of-shark) @!Mr-CRAIG-BOVIM : When you go cage diving here , you do n't necessarily put yourself at risk as a tourist , but you might be putting the local inhabitants at risk . @(Footage-of-Craig-B) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) Craig Bovim is a local inhabitant and a surfer . He leads a group of concerned citizens who believe that chum makes sharks associate people with food . Bovim thinks that may be why a shark attacked him @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ looks at his hands . @!Mr-BOVIM : And I ca n't describe the fear that went through me then . It 's -- I mean , it 's everybody 's worst nightmare , and it was busy happening to me. @(Footage-of-shark) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) He was diving for crayfish when a great white shark came up beside him , disappeared , then returned . @!Mr-BOVIM : All I saw was this fin coming towards me at speed , and he just clamped down hard on both my forearms with a crunching sound . And then his body landed on me . I knew I 'd been eaten , or bitten , and I knew I was ... @!SIMON : You 'd been bitten , you were being eaten ? @!Mr-BOVIM : Well , I do n't know if he was still going to -- going to try and swallow me , but I knew that I was ... @!SIMON : But he was n't letting go . @!Mr-BOVIM : No , I was stuck , and I was -- and I knew I was going to die . I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and the peculiar thing was that I was completely out of pain . I was n't concerned about the situation . Yet , I appeared to be breathing seawater because my mouth was open . I was n't choking from that action . And there I was , still in that animal 's mouth , and I basically gave up . I just lay there , and he started swimming slowly with me in his mouth , presumably out to sea . @!SIMON : With your arms in his mouth . @!Mr-BOVIM : Yeah , like this . I was hanging underneath his belly . And it took awhile for me to react properly , and it was the thought of my children and , like , basically dying and saying goodbye to everyone , that I thought , No , I want to see my kids . So I reacted a bit and I kicked him with my knee , which make him shake me a little , and I realized that I should do something . And so I set about kneeing him and headbutting him with my @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and get out of there . And eventually I pulled as hard as I could on my right arm , and it seemed to -- all that came out looked to -- appeared to be the stump of my forearm , because I looked down and I just saw this gushing stump with arteries exposed and bones and all sorts of things . And I thought I 'd left my hand inside his stomach . And I said , I can deal with it , now with the next one . @(Footage-of-a-shark) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) He eventually managed to pull that hand out , too , and the shark swam away . @!Mr-BOVIM : And then I just -- I sunk like a stone because I had obviously ingested a lot of water , combined with the heavy lead weight belt that I was diving with , I was just too heavy in the water to stay up . So I sunk , and I found myself standing on the seabed , in about eight meters of water . And really in pickle now because I thought I had @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ useless . They were like marshmallows on the end of my arm because all the tendons had been ripped out . And I did n't know how to get my belt off . @!SIMON : And you 're eight meters down . @!Mr-BOVIM : And I was clouded ... @!SIMON : Eight yards down . @!Mr-BOVIM : And I was clouded in blood at this stage , and I could n't see anything . @!SIMON : And it had been a while since you 'd had anything to breathe . @!Mr-BOVIM : Yeah . And I started fumbling around , and I heard this clink , clink sound . And then I realized it was a bone in my arm banging on this stainless steel buckle of the belt . And I eventually managed to find what was about a half inch of what was left of my thumb -- my thumb had been completely amputated -- but there was a half inch of bone left here . Managed to get that underneath the buckle , which was the only time I think I felt -- if I remember correctly -- @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ felt no pain . @!Mr-BOVIM : Painless. @!SIMON : And you did n't feel like you were drowning , either ? @!Mr-BOVIM : No , not at all . It was n't a concern of mine , strangely , because normally do go up and down just from the surface eight meters is a push . And eventually knew that I was getting this buckle open , and I popped it open , and the belt just fell away from me , and I floated up like a cork . qwq @ ( Footage-of-sea ; -ph @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) Exhausted and losing blood fast , Bovim somehow managed to swim 70 yards to shore . Doctors managed to save not only his life , but some use of his hands . Now he devotes himself to campaigning against the way most tour operators conduct their business . You would have no problem , I take it , from going out in a boat and if you see a shark , you see a shark . Your problem is with putting bait in the water , chum , as it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ cages , stuff like that ? @!Mr-BOVIM : It 's domesticating a wild animal . @(Footage-of-shark-b) @!Mr-BOVIM : ( Voiceover ) Yeah , it 's common knowledge : do n't feed wild animals . Why is this the only wild animal you 're allowed to feed in Africa is a great white shark ? It 's bizarre . qwq @ ( Footage-of-church ; @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) Shark attacks used to be virtually unheard of here , but there have been six in the past two years . Three people have died , two of them swallowed whole , which is unusual . Shark spotters have been hired to maintain a constant vigil , and many have joined Bovim 's campaign for legislation to ban baiting and chumming , legislation which already exists in Florida and Hawaii . But tour operators claim that linking what they do to shark attacks is ridiculous . @!Mr-FALLOWS : As you can see here , I 've got two small tuna and a couple of sardines . Any commercial fishing boat that is going out on any given day is putting fish into the @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ catch them , are doing nothing different to us. @!SIMON : A lot of people say this is sort of like putting meat in front of a lion in a game park . @!Mr-FALLOWS : It 's an inevitability of going into the ocean , and when you 've got millions of people using the sea , there are going to be instances where people are going to be attacked . It is as simple as that . @(Photo-of-burned-bo) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) Well , it was n't as simple as that to the people who burned Chris Fallows boat in what was seen as a protest against shark tourism . Other people are directing their anger at the sharks themselves ; vigilantes are vowing to take their boats out and shoot sharks , any sharks , whether or not they were the actual killers . @(Excerpt-from-telev) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) To dampen the hysteria , local conservationists put out this commercial which begins just like " Jaws . " It points out that the number of people killed by sharks worldwide is tiny ; last year , just @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ were killed by toasters . But fear of sharks is so deep , psychologists will tell you , that statistics and commercials ca n't get below the surface . @!Mr-HELGO-SCHOMER : We 're talking about something that humans do n't experience every day . Being on the meal list of somebody else is a very , very unusual experience . @(Footage-of-Simon-a) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) University of Cape Town psychologist and surfer , Helgo Schomer , treats people with shark phobia , or tries to . There are so many ways you can get killed , so many horrible ways you can get killed . @!Mr-SCHOMER : Indeed . @!SIMON : You can get murdered , you can get mugged , you can die in a war . Why is it that getting eaten , bitten by a shark , carries a terror with it that none of the other ways of getting killed do ? @!Mr-SCHOMER : Nothing comes close to it . You mention being eaten . You know , you can die in other ways , but now being eaten , that means I might be alive @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ to me. @(Footage-of-large-f) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) But in fact , sharks have far more to fear from us humans and our industrial fishing fleets which bring in 100 million sharks a year . In some regions , shark populations are down 90 percent , and some species are approaching extinction . Why is this happening ? The answer boils down literally to soup , shark 's fin soup . In China , it 's been an expensive status symbol for millennia . Chefs in the emperor 's court were once beheaded if they prepared it incorrectly . But these days , with China booming , more and more people can pay $100 for a bowl . Finning sharks is a billion-dollar business , and it 's not a pretty sight . That 's because as soon as a shark is caught , his fins are cut off and he 's thrown overboard , alive , to sink to the bottom and drown . In South Africa and a few other countries , it 's a crime to do that . But given the high price of soup , it @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ worth ? A large one can cost thousands of dollars . And the black market in fins is tough to police because most of the sharks are caught in international waters where there 's no law against finning . But on land , laws can be enforced . In Cape Town recently , authorities raided several processing plants owned by Hong Kong Chinese ; seven tons of fins were confiscated . This is only a small fraction of the haul . @(Footage-of-divers-) @!SIMON : ( Voiceover ) And after you 've seen those fins laid out , have another look , as we did , at sharks doing what sharks do , at a cow shark weaving through an underwater forest . At the perfect geometry and grace of a blue shark in cold clear water . It 's not the shark 's fault that we 've demonized him for so long ; besides , we need our demons , they 've been with us in our minds as long as gods . So the next time you 're in a Chinese restaurant and feel like some soup , why not @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ the shark a break . @(Announcements) ' 
##235154 ALAN GREENSPAN @!LESLEY-STAHL-co-h : Alan Greenspan may go down as one of the best chairmen of the Federal Reserve in American history . His 18-year tenure was marked by unprecedented economic growth , budget surpluses and a booming stock market . And he was praised universally for shepherding the economy through the shock of 9/11 . Now he 's written his memoir , " The Age of Turbulence , " which comes out just as he 's coming under fire -- something he 's not used to -- for today 's housing and lending crises . His critics say he established a pattern of bailing out Wall Street investors . Greenspan sat down with us for his first major interview , defending himself against the criticism that he should have done something to stop the shady practices in subprime lending . In a rare admission , he told us he missed its significance . If you knew these practices were going on and even maybe just suspected that there was something illegal or shady , why did n't you speak out ? @!Mr-ALAN-GREENSPAN : Well , basically ... @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . People really listen to Alan Greenspan . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Well , while I was aware a lot these practices were going on , I had no notion of how significant they had become until very late . I did n't really get it until very late in 2005 or 2006. @(Footage-of-Stahl-w) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) But others at the Fed did get it , that banks and mortgage companies had already signed up millions of home buyers and speculators , many with poor credit , for so-called subprime mortgages with complicated interest rate adjustments that have led to record numbers of defaults . Some of the practices were fraudulent . One of your former Fed governors , Ed Gramlich , said that he proposed that the Fed examine these lending practices and look into them to see if something could be done and that you rejected that idea . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Well , I thought ... @!STAHL : Why did you reject it ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I thought that it -- one would not be -- we would not be capable of doing what he was suggesting . @!STAHL @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ regula -- what ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Well , I think not . @!STAHL : Even if you even looked into it ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Well , I -- it 's nothing to look into , particularly , because we knew that there was a number of such practices going on . But it 's very difficult to -- for banking regulators to deal with that . @(Footage-of-housing) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) He insists there 's nothing he could have done to prevent today 's plummeting home prices and the fact that a million families have lost their homes , and many more could . But some economists now say Greenspan actually created the housing bubble and the credit crunch by keeping interest rates too low for too long . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Just remember , we raised interest rates at every meeting from June of 2004 till I got out of office . @!STAHL : You raised rates in 2004 , but only after you held interest rates at historically low levels for three years , while the bubble , the housing bubble was forming . And you had 13 rate @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ was our job to unfreeze the American banking system if we wanted the economy to function . This required that we keep rates modestly low . @!STAHL : But some of the Fed governors who worked with you at the time are now saying that they think interest rates were too low for too long . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I think they are mistaken . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) What this shows is how certain he is about his views and how firmly he guided the Fed when he was chairman and dealt with shocks to the financial markets by quickly lowering interest rates . Now in the current turmoil , investors are calling on his successor , Ben Bernanke , to do what Greenspan would have done . The sense is you would have acted sooner , you would have thrown more cash and liquidity into the system , you would have acted faster and more dramatically . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I 'm not sure that 's true . And let me tell you why . We were dealing in an environment back there where inflation was easing . So @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ pressures . You ca n't do that anymore , and therefore , it 's a different world . I 'm not certain that I would have done anything different were I there or ... @!STAHL : So you do n't think you would have acted any faster . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I doubt it . @!STAHL : So you do n't see any like between you and what Mr. Bernanke 's doing ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I think he 's doing an excellent job . @!STAHL : The CEOs of Ford and Chrysler are begging the Fed to lower rates , I mean , on their hands and knees . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I would suggest that they focus on selling -- creating better cars for their customers . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) The current criticism of his time at the Fed notwithstanding ... Do you miss coming to work here ? @(Footage-of-Stahl-a) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) ... Alan Greenspan guided the economy through the jolt of 9/11 and presided over an unprecedented stretch of 10 years without a recession . When he retired in 2006 at age 79 , he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of government and making real money , I 'm wondering how you 're investing . Are you investing in real estate ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : There 's certain questions I never thought you would ask but knew that if you did , I would n't answer , and you just hit one of them . @!STAHL : What about the stock market ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I 'd just as soon not comment . @!STAHL : But that 's what everybody wants to know . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I 'm sure they do . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) I tried again later by asking about his book advance , reportedly $8 million . Well , if you could be paid in any currency ... @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Mm-hmm . @!STAHL : ... in the whole world , what would you like to be paid in ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Well , as an economist , I would say I could n't care less because I could immediately convert in the exchange markets to whatever currency ... @!STAHL : So it does n't matter ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : No. @!STAHL : Euros , dollars , dinars @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : Key question , basically , is in what currency do you wish to hold your assets . @!STAHL : OK. @!Mr-GREENSPAN : And what I 've done ... @!STAHL : Answer ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : ... is I diversify . @!STAHL : Oh , you do , even in terms of currency ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Yeah . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) Not a surprise , he would n't say which currencies he 's holding . That 's a nice picture . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) What is a surprise is how personal and chatty his book is . By his own admission , " The Age of Turbulence " is a psychoanalysis of himself . And analyze this : He wrote it in longhand in a pretty unusual place . Is it true that you wrote this in the bathtub ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Eighty percent of it , yeah . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) Greenspan pokes fun at himself , especially in the telling of his romance with NBC newswoman Andrea Mitchell , who 's 21 years younger than he is . On their first @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ her back to his apartment for a bit of romantic reading . @!Ms-ANDREA-MITCHELL : Would you believe he did -- he did want to show me an essay he had written . @!STAHL : About what ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : This is anti-trust. @!Ms-MITCHELL : Anti-trust monopolies . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I had long -- I had a long ... @!STAHL : Monopolies ? @!Ms-MITCHELL : Monopolies . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : On the Sherman Anti-Trust Act of 1890. @!STAHL : You know how to woo a girl . @!Ms-MITCHELL : What 's even worse ... @!Mr-GREENSPAN : It worked . @!Ms-MITCHELL : It worked ! @(Photo-of-Greenspan) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) They dated for 13 years before he finally popped the question . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I hinted at it several different times . @!Ms-MITCHELL : He used Fed-speak . It was -- who knew he was proposing ? I could n't figure it out . qwq @ ( Footage-of-Greensp Oh , and for their honeymoon ? He took her to an international monetary conference . His wonkiness and love of statistics go back to when he was a little boy in Depression-era New York @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ and memorized baseball stats . You 're what we would call today a geek . You 're a geek ... @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Yeah . @!STAHL : ... back then . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : You know , like some people , you know , love reading murder mysteries ? @!STAHL : Yeah . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I loved reading that stuff . @(Photo-of-Greenspan) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) And yet he spent a good part of his young life trying to be anything but an economist . His first dream was to be a professional baseball player . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Because when I was 12 and younger , I could hit a curveball. @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) We went to a game in Washington the other day , and he showed me how he still fills out the scorecard . It 's probably the original Fed speak . @(Footage-of-Stahl-) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) It was n't his curveball , but his handling of the economy ... Unidentified Man 1 : I got to tell you , we miss you . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) ... that had people at @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ bills . Unidentified Man 2 : If it was n't for him , I would n't have a house right now . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) Professional ball did n't work out , so what then ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I was going to be a professional musician . @!STAHL : Alan Greenspan jazz band . That 's going to surprise people . @(Photo-of-Greenspan) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) Greenspan was a good enough saxophonist in high school that instead of going right off to college , he was hired by the popular Henry Jerome Orchestra and traveled the country playing bebop jazz . At home in the kitchen , we listened to an old recording . This is you . Can you hear you ? @(Photo-of-Greenspan) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) At 17 , he was hardly Mr. Cool . While the other band members smoked pot and drank booze between sets , he read books about the British stock market . So all this is going on , and you 're sitting over here by the side reading ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I 'm in another room . @!STAHL @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ another room , sitting there reading a book . @!STAHL : You said you ended up doing their income taxes . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : True . @(Photo-of-Greenspan) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) In the end , he became an economist with his own forecasting firm in New York in the 1950s . That 's when he became friends with philosopher Ayn Rand , author of " Atlas Shrugged . " Was this hot off the press when she gave it to you ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Oh , yeah , it was still warm when I read it . @!STAHL : Yeah ? @(Footage-of-Stahl-w) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) Rand advocated a doctrine of unfettered , unregulated capitalism . And Greenspan was one of her most famous disciples . Though in a twist of fate , he 'd later become the nation 's top banking regulator . Do -- you know what her nickname of you was ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : The undertaker. @!STAHL : The undertaker . She thought you radiated gloom . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Yes . @!STAHL : But Rand also thought that you were too much of a social climber . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that . Everybody is a social climber , if you want to put it in one way or another . I mean -- and the reason fundamentally inbred in all of us is the need to get the approval of others . And the ultimate form of getting approval is climbing socially . So to say that ... @!STAHL : So guilty ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I 'm guilty , but then the problem is that there is no non-guilties out there . @!STAHL : We 'll hear some of Greenspan 's controversial views of the presidents he knew and his economic predictions for the future when we come back . @(Announcements) @!STAHL : After years of silence or obtuseness about policies and the people he worked with in Washington , Alan Greenspan opens up in his book , revealing his personal feelings about the six presidents he knew and worked for , starting with Richard Nixon . Here 's what you say in the book , that he was so profane , it would have made Tony Soprano blush . It was that bad ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Oh , indeed . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ first 30 seconds , utters more four-letter words than I had heard in the music business . And I said , There 's something extraordinarily wrong here , that there were two Nixons. @(Photo-of-Greenspan) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) Greenspan writes that " Nixon was anti-Semitic , anti-Italian , anti-Greek , anti-Slovak . I do n't know anybody he was pro . " And Gerald Ford ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Extraordinary human being . @!STAHL : But he was n't the smartest , you say . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : No , he was not the smartest , but he was the most normal . @!STAHL : And that 's what you ended up admiring ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Oh , he ... @!STAHL : The normalty ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Well , it was also the ethical base of the man . We 'd be discussing policy and say , Let 's ' -- he says , Let 's forget some of the facts , and is this the right thing to do for the economy ? ' @!STAHL : And the other president did n't focus to that extent ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : No . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , he said he had an odd form of intelligence which he used to improve the country 's self-image . He writes that he had a quote , " terrible " relationship with the first President George Bush , who pressured Greenspan publicly . President GEORGE BUSH : ( From file footage ) And interest rates should be lower now . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I was shocked because nobody talked about Federal Reserve policy in public . @!STAHL : Was what they did improper ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Oh , indeed , yes . @!STAHL : They crossed a line , in your view ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Well , if you have , as we do , by statute , an independent Federal Reserve , it clearly is in opposition to what the purpose of the law was . @(Photo-of-George-Bu) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) President Bush later said it Greenspan 's fault he lost the election in ' 92 to Bill Clinton . Clinton was the only Democrat Greenspan served under , and he says , the smartest of all the presidents he knew . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Even though I clearly was @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ an extraordinarily effective president . @!STAHL : You seem to have gotten along with him best of all your presidents . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : That 's odd . Yeah , yeah . @!STAHL : I mean , you ... @!Mr-GREENSPAN : The bottom line is what he called our relationship when he said , We , I think , are the odd couple . ' @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) I asked what he thought of Hillary . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Very smart . She and I got along reasonably well . @!STAHL : Do you think she can handle the presidency ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Certainly . Well , I think she 's unquestionably capable . The question is , is she the best person for the job ? @!STAHL : And ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : My tendency would be to vote Republican . President BILL CLINTON : ( From file footage ) We all know that when Chairman Greenspan talks , the world listens . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) He got so close to Clinton and his economic team that he began visiting the White House as often as once @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ What was going on ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Well , I was basically being an economic consultant , which was ... @!STAHL : But is that proper for the Fed chairman to become an economic consultant of the administration given the need for the appearance for total independence ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : We are one government . The Federal Reserve is not the foreign enemy . I was very knowledgeable about lots of different subjects . I mean , for example ... @!STAHL : But you were influencing the policy . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I hope I was . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) That was behind the scenes . In public , Greenspan was inscrutable whenever Congress asked about interest rates . He resorted to an indecipherable Delphic dialect known as " Fed Speak . " @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I would -- I would engage in some form of syntax destruction , which sounded as though I was ... @!STAHL : Syntax destruction . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : ... answering the question , but in fact had not . @!STAHL : We showed him a tape of him at a hearing . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : ( @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ need of more drastic actions at a later date . And that could destabilize the economy . Very profound . @!STAHL : Very profound . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : It basic ... @!STAHL : Impenetrably profound . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : In other words ... @!STAHL : So you worked on these , right ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Oh , of course . @!STAHL : You worked making it even -- but what would often happen is you 'd get two newspapers with opposing headlines coming out of the same hearing . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I succeeded . I succeeded . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) Chairman Alan became St. Alan during the robust Clinton years , getting much of the credit for the booming economy , budget surpluses and soaring markets . You became a rock star . You did . Saying -- people were coming up to you in the street , as I understand it -- tell me if this is true -- thanking you for the growth in their 401(k)s. @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I know . @(Footage-of-New-Yor) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) Wall Street , whose profits soared during his tenure , loved @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ " for his tendency to slash rates and make money cheap when the markets went down . Unidentified Man 3 : Let 's talk about ... ( unintelligible ) . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) Greenspan 's most criticized move as Fed chair came at the start of George Bush 's term , when he supported tax reductions . His testimony , while careful , was read as an endorsement of Bush 's massive tax cuts . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : ( From file footage ) Having a tax cut in place may , in fact , do noticeable good . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) Greenspan had been saying that the surplus should be used to shore up Social Security and Medicare . But he writes that he came to favor a tax cut because he thought without one the surplus would get too large . Yeah , but why did n't you think that Congress would never have allowed it to get that far ? Why would n't you think they would spend it on education , on bridges , on roads , or whatever they do ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ still large enough . So I never explicitly stated that I was in favor of the Bush tax cut . That 's what the Bush administration interpreted , but I never said -- I was -- I was in favor of a tax cut . @!STAHL : Several newspapers , when you testified , said that this was -- that you 'd done this for political reasons , that you did it to , you know , win the hearts of the Bush people . Did you succumb to pressure from the White House ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : No , not at all . They did ... @!STAHL : Did you ... @!Mr-GREENSPAN : They never spoke to me about this . I mean , look , you can only say what you believe . I went back over that testimony . And I must tell you , I would not change a word of it . @!STAHL : Even knowing the outcome ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Yeah , yeah . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) The outcome ? The surplus evaporated , and the deficits returned . Greenspan had proposed that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ trim back the tax cuts . But that never happened . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Well , remember that their economic policy largely was to take the proposals made during the campaign , when there was a prospective very large surplus , and that those policies continued in place , irrespective of what was happening to the surplus . @!STAHL : Well , that 's not -- that 's very rigid . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : I do n't know if it was rigid . It was wrong . @(Footage-of-Vice-Pr) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) Greenspan says he was especially surprised and disappointed by his old friend Dick Cheney . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : He was much less focused on restraining spending than I would have liked and ... @!STAHL : Well , actually Cheney has said deficits do n't matter . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Well , I think he was mistaken on that . @!STAHL : So , these are your new offices ? @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) Greenspan is out of government now for the first time in 20 years . He set up an economic forecasting firm , Greenspan Associates , and he @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Do you think that this is really going to have deep , lasting effect throughout the economy , jobs , consumer spending ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : It 's not clear yet , and it will not be clear for quite a while . This is fundamentally , originally caused by the flattening out of home prices , and that is only now just beginning . @!STAHL : Well ... @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Prices are going to fall further . @!STAHL : Well , what we 've already begun to see is not just that housing prices are falling , but that it 's affecting the job market for anything related to housing , including real estate ... @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Yes . @!STAHL : ... including the sales of appliances and furniture . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : But there is an underlying strength in the United States . And indeed , when you look around the world , even with this extraordinary credit problem , the economies seem to be holding up . For the moment , it does not look sufficiently severe that it will spiral into anything deeper . We 're going to get @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ This is a human behavior phenomenon , and it will pass . The fever will break and euphoria will start to come back again . @(Footage-of-Stahl-i) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) But he does see clouds on the horizon . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Over the long run , this is not going to be what our problem is . Our problem over the long run is the re-emergence of inflation . @!STAHL : This is interesting because , in your book , your outlook on the broad future is pretty gloomy . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Well ... @!STAHL : Interest rates going up , you say . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Yes . @!STAHL : Inflation going up . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Yes . Indeed , I , in fact , have a line in the book saying this looks pretty gloomy . @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) When he was chairman , his public statements had enormous impact . He 's finding out they still do . In February , he rattled the markets by predicting there was a one in three chance of a recession this year . It forced the current chairman @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , and raised questions about the propriety of his speaking out . This is n't like any normal forecaster going public . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : So , what -- so I then become incarcerated , and I 'm not allowed to do anything because I might ... @!STAHL : Well , what ... @!Mr-GREENSPAN : ... say something ? @!STAHL : ... what is your responsibility ? Let 's put it in those terms . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : My responsibility is what I am doing now . I 'm not commenting on monetary policy , I 'm commenting on global things . I ... @!STAHL : Yeah , but the comment that has most people upset was your prediction about a recession , that you should n't be commenting on those kind -- on recession inflation . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : But how am I going to pursue my profession without doing precisely that ? @!STAHL : Well , you know , sometimes people in Congress have this rule that they ca n't work in related fields or ca n't become a lobbyist for X amount of time . Should there be a respite here @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ I was not allowed to go lobby the Fed , which I have never done , and have n't done . And ... @!STAHL : No , no . I mean about speaking . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Yeah . There 's no restriction on speaking . @!STAHL : Should there be ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : No. @!STAHL : Should you impose one yourself ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : No. @(Footage-of-Greensp) @!STAHL : ( Voiceover ) When he 's not working these days , he does what he 's always done to relax . Yep , he flips through government reports with all those geeky numbers . @!Ms-MITCHELL : He loves these data . I mean , look at this stuff here . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Oh , quiet down , you . @!STAHL : This is his stuff ? @!Ms-MITCHELL : And this is his morning reading . Still ... @!STAHL : This is his -- Bureau of Labor Statistics productivity and causes . This is your sit down over the cup of coffee in the morning ? @!Mr-GREENSPAN : Oh , yeah . I just love getting into the detail of , say , protein @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ in price ... @!Ms-MITCHELL : It makes your head hurt . @!STAHL : Yes . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : ... the differential in price between ... @!Ms-MITCHELL : It 's very romantic . @!Mr-GREENSPAN : ... Kansas City and Chicago was relevant . It was -- no , it was romantic to me . That 's what the -- that 's what the joke is . And I 'm still that way . I mean , I just love that stuff . @!Ms-MITCHELL : You 're silly . @(Announcements) ' 
##235155 @!MICHELE-NORRIS-ho : From NPR News , this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED . I 'm Michele Norris . Over the past four decades , if you 've read newspaper stories about the trials of Charles Manson , Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg , Angela Davis , John Delorian , Michael Jackson and O.J. Simpson , chances are at least a few of those stories appeared under the byline Linda Deutsch . Based in Los Angeles , Deutsch has had a ringside seat for some of the country 's most sensational trials as a reporter for the Associated Press . Last week , the AP threw Linda Deutsch a big , flashy party to celebrate her 40 years on the court beat . Of course , she was the star . Her fascination with court reporting began with this event in 1968. qwq @ ( Soundbite-of-archi Unidentified Man : Senator Kennedy has been shot . Is that possible ? Is that possible ? @!NORRIS : Senator Robert F. Kennedy was shot by Sirhan Sirhan , just after midnight . Deutsch told me her shift that night had just begun . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ : That was my first huge , huge story in the L.A. bureau , and it changed my life . I had been thinking about a career covering entertainment , believe it or not . And after the Sirhan trial , in which I was kind of a backup reporter , the following year , the next thing that happened was the killing of Sharon Tate and her friends . And the Tate-LaBianca killings obviously became one of the biggest stories of all time , and I was assigned to it immediately , and I covered the entire Manson trial . @!NORRIS : You were not initially the lead reporter on that ... Ms. DEUTSCH : That 's right . I was too young . And they had a trial expert in New York , Art Everett(ph) , who was very well known , who was a very dignified gentleman who did not like to stay away from home for long . And he looked around , and he saw what was going on at this trial . This trial had people having LSD flashbacks in the courtroom , kids camped @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Manson , and then there were predictions that the trial was going to last a year . And one day , Art came up to me , and he said you know what ? I think I had a vacation scheduled . And he left , and he never came back . @(Soundbite-of-laugh) @!NORRIS : What a heck of a way to get a promotion . Ms. DEUTSCH : That 's right , and for the next year , I was the reporter on the Manson trial . It 's amazing how your life changes . It 's all timing . @!NORRIS : Were you in court the day that Charles Manson leapt at the judge with that pencil in his hand ? Ms. DEUTSCH : I sure was . Charlie was getting upset with the judge , and he was very small and lithe , and he went flying across the counsel table with this pencil in his hand and yelled out : someone should cut your head off , old man . And he was , of course , leapt upon by sheriff 's deputies , who dragged him @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ of the trial . @!NORRIS : He had a terrifying stare , and it was reported that sometimes he would actually glower at the press corps . Were you ever on the receiving end of one of those stares ? Ms. DEUTSCH : Oh yes . One day my dear friend and mentor - Theo Wilson , who was the great reporter for the New York Daily News - she and I were sitting in the front row , and it was a break in testimony , and Charlie turned and glowered at us and said : your karma is coming down on you . And Theo , who was wonderful , looked at him and said : oh shut up . @(Soundbite-of-laugh) @!NORRIS : That trial lasted for more than a year . It must 've been exhausting , though . Ms. DEUTSCH : It was exhausting , and it was mind-bending . It was - you lived in a different reality , because you were suddenly in this world of this commune that he ran . They called them hippies , but they were n't really . They were @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ covering it full-time , that was our world . And people who would hear us in restaurants , the reporters talking about all this , would be mesmerized because the stories were so outrageous . @!NORRIS : Sometimes the cases that you covered were , in many ways , a litmus test for society , whether it was the kidnapping trial involving Patty Hearst or the Angela Davis trial . Some saw her as a hero . Others saw her as an activist . Ms. DEUTSCH : I always say that trials mirror history . That if you wanted to know what was going on in America at a specific time , you needed to walk into a courtroom and look around and listen to what was happening . And you would see , for instance in the Ellsberg trial , you saw the Vietnam War . In the Angela Davis trial , you saw the story of the Black Panthers . In the Patty Hearst trial , we had post-Vietnam alienation . You go on and on , and you come up to the more present time with the O.J. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ elements of celebrity and racism and domestic violence - a lot of issues . @!NORRIS : Linda , you also covered the Rodney King trial , the trial of the four police officers who were accused of beating Rodney King and sparked the riots that flared up all throughout the Los Angeles area . What was it like covering that as a reporter but also as a resident of the city ? Ms. DEUTSCH : Well , the trial was not held in the city . It was moved out of the city to Simi Valley , which is a bedroom community north of here . And it was in a place that really had no relevance to Los Angeles , which is one of the reasons , I think , that played into them being acquitted . And I think I was sitting in the courtroom , and there was a reporter sitting next to me , and when we heard the verdict , she said to me : now we can cover the riots . And to me , it was the most depressing of all the verdicts I @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ heart of what I believed about trials , and it seemed to undermine my beliefs . I always believed that no matter how bad a situation was , you could go into a courtroom , and you could settle things in a civilized way . In this case , the trial triggered the worst riots in Los Angeles history . I could not get back to the city after the verdict because the roads were closed , and I watched my city burn on television . It was terrible . @!NORRIS : Linda , why have you stayed on this beat so long ? Ms. DEUTSCH : Oh , it 's so fascinating . I ca n't think of anything I would rather do . It 's like being in a theater every day . It 's like being in the front row seat to history . It 's - no other beat offers this kind of access to human emotion . You get at the heart of what people are about . And I think that the murder trial , whether it has any historical significance or not , is @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ that ? And I sit there and have to listen to both sides , put the pieces together , and present them to an audience . It 's the most exciting thing I can think that any reporter could do . @!NORRIS : Linda Deutsch has just celebrated 40 years on the courthouse beat for the Associate Press , based in Los Angeles . Good to talk to you , Linda , and congratulations . Ms. DEUTSCH : Thank you , Michele. @!NORRIS : And in case you were wondering , she 's still on the beat . Linda Deutsch says , up for her next , is probably the Phil Spector case , another Hollywood murder trial . 
##235156 @!MICHELE-NORRIS-ho : From NPR News , this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED . I 'm Michele Norris . It is a fact of life in developing countries all over the world , in every religious tradition and in every region - from Mali and Nigeria in Africa to India and Nicaragua - about one-third of women marry as children . In this part of the program , we 're going to travel with NPR 's Brenda Wilson to Ethiopia , where the government is trying to change that . Keeping with international conventions on children and women , Ethiopia has said that women must be 18 to marry . But that law has turned up mixed results . Here 's Brenda 's report from a rural village in Ethiopia , a country that still has one of the highest rates of child marriage in the world . @!BRENDA-WILSON : The village of Yinsa is a little over a half hour 's drive from the 21st century and the nearest town . Tens of thousands of people live on the family compounds and farms scattered throughout the forests of eucalyptus @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ goes into the making of the spongy bread , njera . The guide then takes us on a trek into dense undergrowth . Family compounds spring up , huts constructed of sturdy tree limbs and pieces of wood with dark , red earth and straw packed between them . Unidentified Man : ( Foreign language spoken ) @!Mr-GEBRE-EJIGU : Please enter my house . Visit , please . @!WILSON : Gebre Ejigu and his brother are churning the earth into a thick glop for an addition they 're planning to the family homestead , a space for their aging mother . Your name is ? @!Ms-ASCHTENEK-ALEM : Alem. @!Mr-EJIGU : Aschtenek Alem. @!Ms-ALEM : ( Foreign language spoken ) @(Soundbite-of-laugh) @!WILSON : Inside , there 's one large room with a dirt floor . The old woman rises from a goatskin-covered earthen shelf , and choking smoke drifts up from a smoldering fire in the center . The only light comes in from the doorway . Hardly any adults here know their age . Aschtenek Alem , a small , sinewy woman whose graying hair has been cropped short , could @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ ca n't remember when she married . @!Ms-ALEM : ( Through Translator ) Please leave me alone . I swear by the name of St. Mary , I do n't even know how old my kids are , let alone when I got married . @!WILSON : From childhood on , young girls in rural societies like this one move from subservience to subservience . During the rainy season , as a young girl , Aschtenek trailed behind her husband in the field helping with the planting , even as she did her household chores - making cloth , fetching water , and cutting wood and kept house . She had three children , two sons and a girl . Her husband was at least 10 years older than she was . @!Ms-ALEM : ( Through Translator ) : We did n't know each other before we got married , but we got along . There was no fighting . @!WILSON : It was a different time 40 years ago , in the waning years of Emperor Haile Selassie 's reign . @!Ms-ALEM : ( Through Translator ) Praise be to @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ two plots of land . My children use that land . I 'm living with them . It 's not much , but I feel blessed . @!WILSON : Aschtenek 's husband died two years ago . As she talks , a teenage girl has got the fire going and is preparing coffee , roasting the beans by rolling them on a flat pan over the fire . Her name is Silenat . She is the wife of Aschtenek 's 25-year-old son . Two years ago , at the age of 14 , she was married and brought here to live . What do you remember ? @!SILENAT : ( Through Translator ) Playing . I have two brothers . I remember playing with my brothers . @!WILSON : What did your mother and father say to you when they gave you to your husband ? @!SILENAT : ( Through Translator ) It was the day before I came here . They told me there will be a wedding day . You will go with a husband to another village . @!WILSON : She 's a sly beauty who ca n't @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ at an image of herself captured by a digital camera . @!SILENAT : ( Through Translator ) I am very beautiful . @(Soundbite-of-laugh) @!SILENAT : I 've seen myself in a mirror but I 've never seen myself in a picture . @!WILSON : In 1995 , Ethiopia government set 18 as the age limit for marriage . No one here says they oppose that , but child marriages keep right on happening . Aschtenek 's son was 23 , for example , when he married the 14-year-old Silenat . Aschtenek herself believes the marriages work better when the man is older , since he has to deal with a wife who is , in many ways , still a child . @!Ms-ALEM : ( Through Translator ) He has to be able to help himself , or at least be happy . I 'm serious . There are a lot of things he should take care of . It is a good thing to wait until they get older . I think the change is for good . @!WILSON : It is almost always the girls who marry at an @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ an eight-year age difference between partners . Marriages are alliances that provide social and economic advantages for the families - more land , more cows , more standing in the community . A girl who is n't married early is viewed as spoiled or ruined . And if she loses her virginity before marriage , it is virtually impossible to find a man who will marry her . Early marriage means it 's also less likely that she will have sex before marriage with a boy or man who does not meet the family 's approval . And it lessens the chance that a girl who is desirable or from a good family will be abducted and raped as a way of laying claim to her . @(Soundbite-of-dripp) @!WILSON : So a child marriage is still seen by men like Bazie Minale as a way of protecting their daughters . Minale is Aschtenek 's neighbor and lives a short walk away down a muddy path from Aschtenek 's family . He also seems convinced that the family 's reputation rests on whether his daughters are married by the age of 12. @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ married and gone . If she stays with us , people might think that there is something wrong with us . We want her married and have kids . @!WILSON : But Minale says the young girl would remain at home until she is able to manage her own household . @!Mr-MINALE : ( Through Translator ) When she gets married at the age of 12 , she stays at home with us . She can stay for two years until she is ready and mature . Then she can go home with her husband and start her own life . @!WILSON : There 's a new school in the village that has given his 8-year-old daughter Enatnesh , a third-grader , a glimpse of another life . She stands by the doorway and takes in her father 's words with a look of profound sadness . What do you want for your life ? You 're 8 years old . @!ENATNESH : ( Through Translator ) I want to be a doctor . I want to be a teacher . Or like you . @!WILSON : Do you think you @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ 15 ? @!ENATNESH : ( Through Translator ) I ca n't be . @!WILSON : When do you want to get married ? @!ENATNESH : I do n't want to marry a husband . @!WILSON : Can you decide this ? @!ENATNESH : ( Through Translator ) Of course , I ca n't decide to marry or not . The decision is up to my family , my father and mother . @!WILSON : Her future already holds more promise than her mother 's . But early marriage would undercut her possibilities in life , introducing her early on to heavy workloads in the fields , at home , and to bearing children at an age when health complications are much more likely . As we prepare to leave Yinsa , Aschtenek 's daughter , Lidsie Ejigu , walks up . She is a striking 31-year-old woman with an aura of fearlessness about her . She is the leader of a local women 's group that is working with Ethiopia 's National Association on Traditional Practices . They want to improve the status of women . @!Ms-LIDSIE-EJIGU-@1 : ( Through Translator @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ know more about their health , how to protect themselves from HIV/AIDS , how to use birth control . They know to protect their own property , however small it is . It 's those that have n't been able to join us , that are reluctant to join us . They do n't know about these things yet . It 's those that we need to reach out to . @!WILSON : In the old days , she says , a man could abandon his wife and hold on to the property , even if part of it was her dowry . @!Ms-EJIGU : ( Through Translator ) Take , for example , this land over here . It belongs to the couple who live here . Say they had a disagreement . The man has every right to kick the woman out . He could do that . He could tell her to leave . The woman can go and ask for some legal advice to see if she could get half the property , half the land , half the cattle . But she would get nowhere . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ be better for her to stay in the marriage . @!WILSON : Lidsie was married once herself , given away at age 16 . But it did n't work . @!Ms-EJIGU : ( Through Translator ) He took another wife . What was I to do ? I guess we did n't get along anymore . And then he did n't work very hard . He was n't bringing enough , enough harvest - not enough for us to live on . @!WILSON : So she decided to strike out on her own . @!Ms-EJIGU : ( Through Translator ) I used to collect firewood , make - you know , sell that in the market , and that 's how I was able to raise the children . Now , together with my brothers , we are farming the land that our father left us. @!WILSON : It is the voice of a mature woman awakening . @!Ms-EJIGU : ( Foreign language spoken ) I never had a chance to go to school when I was young . I never had a chance to study . Maybe if I did @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ . @!WILSON : And as defeated as she may sound , she 's already steps that millions of women around the world have yet to take . Brenda Wilson , NPR News . @!NORRIS : And you can see photos of the young women Brenda met in Ethiopia . You 'll find that at our Web site , npr.org. 
##235160 @!MICHELE-NORRIS-ho : From NPR News , this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED . I 'm Michele Norris . @!MELISSA-BLOCK-hos : And I 'm Melissa Block . Peter O'Toole made his first indelible impression on the movie screen as T.E . Lawrence in " Lawrence of Arabia " - burnished and chiseled , wrapped in a white burnoose under a burning sun , his blue eyes a vivid match for the sky . He was 28 when filming began . Now at 74 , Peter O'Toole plays an actor at the end of his life in the film , " Venus . " In this scene , he compares pills with his friend , Ian . @(Soundbite-of-movie) @!Mr-PETER-O'TOOLE-@ : ( As Morris ) What have I got today ? Oh . You should try these . You 'll never wake up . @!Mr-LESLIE-PHILLIPS : ( As Ian ) It 's the waking up pills I 'm looking for . @!Mr-O'TOOLE : ( As Morris ) Anything blue I recommend for that . White ones give me more of a thrill . Oh , well . Do not operate heavy machinery @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Ian ) Biblical advice . @!BLOCK : It was some equally prophetic advice that led Peter O'Toole to acting in the first place . He was 20 and serving in the Royal Navy as a signal man on an armed cruiser. @!Mr-O'TOOLE : I served with men who 'd been blown up in the Atlantic , who 'd seen their friends drinking icy bubbles in oil and being machine gunned in the water . And I mentioned that I was n't particularly satisfied with what I was doing in civilian life , which was working for a newspaper . And the skipper said to me one night , have you any unanswered calls inside you that you do n't understand or ca n't qualify ? I said , well , yes , I do . I quite fancy myself either as a poet or an actor . He said , well , if you do n't at least give it a try , you 'll regret it for the rest of your life . @!BLOCK : What a smart man , that skipper , that captain was to tell you that @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ man . Delightful man . @!BLOCK : And from that skipper 's advice , a very long career was born on stage and film . In this latest movie , " Venus , " Peter O'Toole plays Morris , a veteran actor who 's reduced to playing corpses on TV medical dramas . He meets a young woman - very young - and falls for her . Their relationship is both creepy and tender . Peter O'Toole says the appeal of " Venus " was in the words . @!Mr-O'TOOLE : From my earliest memories of even thinking of being an actor to the present day , what for me has been first , foremost , last and essential is a script . We were a generation who were brought up to believe that plays - particularly plays - however well constructed , were human speech as an art form . And when I read " Venus " - it 's a strange thing , but it 's true for most actors - is you pick up a script and the author has very , very carefully and over many months @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ flows in through the eyes and into the person and inhabits it . And one knows - you know when you 've found a part that you want to play . You know it . Because the part takes you over . It sits in the script waiting for you to play him . You just know . @!BLOCK : So when you got the script for " Venus " and were looking for , you know , you 're describing human speech as an art form , you found it in there . What in particular about your character , about Morris ... @!Mr-O'TOOLE : I know it 's fashionable now to talk about character , and I 've heard many , many young actors and actresses talk about character . But I have n't the faintest idea what anyone means by it . To me , it was a good part in a good story . I love the story . And I love the part . @!BLOCK : The focus is , of course , on your relationship with a young girl , Jessie . But I found @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ have with your fellow actor , Ian , played by Leslie Phillips . There 's some wonderful moments of tenderness between the two of you . @!Mr-O'TOOLE : Sure . Well , I think throughout the picture , if someone asked me if I could sum up the picture in a few words , I would relate what a dirty old man and a young slut of a woman . And then it 's an examination of those two clichs . Then it begins to examine more than that : friendship , beauty , youth - youth particularly . Youth . Youth and age . And it could be a risqu subject , and it indeed is , for there is sex in it . There 's violence . There 's all sorts of things . And yet , when I read it and even when we played it until this moment , there 's not one scrap of smut in the entire picture . It 's a wonderful balancing act . @!BLOCK : Your character at one point recites a Shakespeare sonnets to Jessie , to the young girl . @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ As Morris ) Shall I compare thee to a summer 's day ? Thou art more lovely and more temperate . Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May and summer 's lease have all to short of a date . Sometime to halt , the eye of heaven shines , and oft this is gold complexion ... @!BLOCK : It does n't get much better than that , does it ? @!Mr-O'TOOLE : It 's beautiful stuff , is n't it ? Shakespeare , I believe to be one of the most overrated playwrights in the world . In that , there are 12 plays or so that are sublime and matchless . And in the rest , I 'm afraid , for my money , a bit rhetorical and boring . And the idea of a Shakespeare industry I find laughable and crude . And unspeakable , in fact . But nothing in his language compares with his sonnets . Nothing in my view in the English language compares with the Shakespeare sonnets . @!BLOCK : Was this part of the original script , or was this something @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ , no . I do n't do that . I 'm - I really do n't . I find a very strange attitude , indeed , which I ca n't comprehend if there is some material in front of you and you believe that you are superior to that material . Or you can add or subtract to that material . I find that a very ill attitude indeed . No , I like it to be on the page in front of me . Having said that , I think there was some debate about which sonnet , but that was all . @!BLOCK : Hmm . And did you weigh in on that debate ? @!Mr-O'TOOLE : No . No . Oh , yes , I did . I said , well , let 's pick an old favorite . An old - everyone knows " Shall I Compare Thee to a Summer 's Day ? " Everyone knows that one , I think . So I said , let 's do an old song . And that was agreed , we 'd do an old song . And @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ Rather than some of the more obscure sonnets . @!BLOCK : So you would have known this one by heart . @!Mr-O'TOOLE : I 'm afraid I know all 156 of them . @!BLOCK : You don't. @!Mr-O'TOOLE : I do . They 're my life companion . They 're at the side of my bed . They travel with me . I pick them up and I read them all the time . I find them endlessly informing , endlessly beautiful , endlessly - they say , they hit the spot so many times on so many things . @!BLOCK : Could I ask you to tell us one now ? @!Mr-O'TOOLE : Tell you one ? Any one in particular ? @!BLOCK : Whatever you 'd like . @!Mr-O'TOOLE : Oh , my mistress ' eyes are nothing like the sun . Coral is far more red than her lips red . If snow be white , why then her breasts be done . If hair be wires , black wires grow on her head . I have seen roses damasked , red and white , but no such @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ perfumes is there more delight than in the breath that from my mistress reeks . I love to hear her speak , yet well I know that music hath a far more pleasing sound . I swear I never saw a goddess go . My mistress , when she walks , treads on the ground . And yet - anything - but I 've forgotten the last couplet. @!BLOCK : That 's just wonderful , to ... @!Mr-O'TOOLE : Just popped into my head . @!BLOCK : Well , you did very well . @(Soundbite-of-laugh) @!BLOCK : And you 're going to remember that last couplet as soon as you leave the studio , I know . @!Mr-O'TOOLE : And yet I believe my love more fair than any she belied with false compare . There . @!BLOCK : Done . @!Mr-O'TOOLE : Not a very good couplet , is it ? @(Soundbite-of-laugh) @!Mr-O'TOOLE : That 's probably why I ca n't remember it . @!BLOCK : Well , Peter O'Toole , it 's a pleasure to talk to you . Thanks so much . @!Mr-O'TOOLE : You 're Melissa , @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ All right . Thank you , Melissa . @!BLOCK : Peter O'Toole 's new film is called " Venus . " There 's more of our conversation at npr.org , where you can hear him talk about filming " Lawrence of Arabia . " 